No meme!

[smokingboot]

No, too embarrassing! I cannot do that meme everyone's into, despite my desperate desire to be cuddled and flattered right now.

It has provoked some interesting thoughts though. Recently, a chum who's on the show was discussing cosmetic surgery with me. She knows a salariman's wife with considerable expertise on top notch under the knife enhancement. Apparently now is the time to do it, before the rot sets in; prevention is better than cure etc, etc. Friend is suggesting we go get a free consultation on what might best assist us. I am sanguine, ready to consider this a waste of time right now...and then I check out my skin and teeth. Uh-oh. the latter will only become important in dealing with Statesiders, cos they do seem to fixate on the horrors of British dentistry or lack of it. Why are our teeth so bad, I wonder? Bleaching those suckers looks more and more likely, but I really don't see myself wearing a retainer or resetting my jaw to straighten my overbite. And my skin...no, I don't want to turn this into a long post.

I read back and find I have found four instances of the word 'No' in this post. For now at least, I'm treating it as a decision made at the back of my head. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with cosmetic surgery - people should be happy with the way they look, and if that's what it takes, so be it - but don't feel the need right now, plus I'm too busy plus I've no money. And my honey is afraid I am going to be 'consulted' right into unnecessary unhappiness about aspects of my face/figure.

TV's a narcissistic world, we can look at ourselves for too long. Other people's creativity is the cure. So for non-neurotic makeovers, check out awesome_places and the latest post on art_nouveau. Stunning!

Comments

[clawbeast.livejournal.com]

Worth noting that bleaching can lead to sensitive teeth and in turn onto enamel work. I can ask a friend who is a dentist and works in same building as me if you would like more info.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

That would be seriously useful to me, thank you. Most of the girls on the show have done it - I understand you can get it on the NHS for around £200, and must admit, I would like to be less embarrassed about my smile and my 1970s pewter grey fillings!

[clawbeast.livejournal.com]

Most of the girls on the show? Ok now that piqued my curiosity, and will pop in and see the dentist shortly and ask her for pros and cons of bleaching teeth.

[clawbeast.livejournal.com]

Main issue with teeth bleaching is it makes the enamel a little more porous so your teeth will discolour a little faster. Which means they will need bleaching a little a sooner etc etc.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Thank you for this info. See, my tooth discolouration comes from over-application of antibiotics in babyhood; it's not terrible, but it's not pristine either. I don't know if the bleach wears off, or if I do much that would taint my teeth now; I don't smoke but do like my red wine and coffee.

[clawbeast.livejournal.com]

Coffee is a killer on prous surfaces. You can get a treatment that helps stop it though. I will go get some details on that for you also.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Info on that would be really useful. Thank you for all the stuff you are telling me, it helps a lot:-)

[clawbeast.livejournal.com]

Anytime :D
Font of largely useless information me :D

[cyanidemigraine.livejournal.com]

its a scary meme to contemplate isnt it? what if no one was to reply? thats my very real fear for my journal *grins*

good to see you last night, shame your going before friday night *boo hiss*

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Re the meme, too true!

Re Friday night, also too true. My life is being cussedly awkward at the moment. Here's to friends, and getting together.

[falco-biarmicus.livejournal.com]

Bleaching teeth.....

I did this before my first wedding (at which point I could be talked into just about anything). I had a gumshield made and had to pipe one third of a tube of special tooth bleach into the upper shield, and a third into the lower shield, before putting them on at night. As this was a rather bad time in my life, I had taken to drinking a little in excess. I stumbled upstairs one night, grabbed the tube and emptied it into the top shield. I was under the impression that I only had a third of a tube left, so I reached for a new tube to open for the lowed gum shield. To my horror, I found that the nearly empty tube was still on the side, and I had just piped a whole tube of bleach into the upper gum shield. I tried to dig the stuff out, but in my drunken state my efforts where somewhat ineffective. I woke up in the morning foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog!

Aiiiieee!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Can't stop laughing but am also slightly horrified:-D

Do you still use the gumshield thing? Your teeth look fine to me!

Re: Aiiiieee!

[falco-biarmicus.livejournal.com]

No.

One day, my brain switched itself back on and I realised that I did not need a husband or perfectly white teeth.

It was one funny highlight in a very bleak time. You should have seen me the following morning - hungover, caustic dribble on the pillow, and this wretched foam everywhere! Seriously - I was rinsing my mouth out for hours! I could have been an understudy for Coju!

Re: Aiiiieee!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

*ROFL*

but when I pick myself up off the floor, your lesson stays with me...

[thalinoviel.livejournal.com]

You do not need any kind of surgery. Nor should you ever have any form of botulism injected into your forehead. If you really give a toss about your teeth (which I think are fine) home whitening kits are in Sainsburys and cost £5.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

The things you say work better than a reassuring meme any time. Thank you my dear:-)

[november-girl.livejournal.com]

Your beautiful skin is something I've often envied. I know you hate your freckles, but really they're very lovely and give you a wonderful natural (almost schoolgirly) kind of look.

Can I also add my voice to your thought re cosmetic surgery? You really really don't need it. Okay, I wouldn't tell you if you did, but I certainly wouldn't post to tell you that you don't. You have aged better than anyone else I know, and I bet if you asked a cross section of people who didn't know your age they'd all think you were in your mid-late thirties.

Freckles!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Them thar damn things! If I let the sun get to them and put my hair behind my ears, people start yelling 'Begorrah' at me and demanding I cobble lucky shoes for them.

But thank you for saying nice things. I have reached the stage when I look better with less make-up; the response to that can be very gratifying I confess;-) The day may come when I look at myself and the shudder lasts and then I will consider very carefully what to do next. But that can wait.

[semyaza.livejournal.com]

I like British teeth. They're real teeth. The American obsession with enormous, perfect, glowing white teeth creeps me out. The teeth creep me out. When I was a kid, the only people who had teeth like that were old people with dentures and a few others who had good genes or the right kind of drinking water. They're not natural. They're like something out of Poe:

But from the disordered chamber of my brain, had not, alas! departed, and would not be driven away, the white and ghastly spectrum of the teeth. Not a speck on their surface - not a shade on their enamel - not an indenture in their edges - but what that period of her smile had sufficed to brand in upon my memory. I saw them now even more unequivocally than I beheld them then. The teeth! - the teeth! - they were here, and there, and everywhere, and visibly and palpably before me; long, narrow, and excessively white, with the pale lips writhing about them, as in the very moment of their first terrible development. Then came the full fury of my monomania, and I struggled in vain against its strange and irresistible influence. In the multiplied objects of the external world I had no thoughts but for the teeth. For these I longed with a phrenzied desire.

The teeth! The teeth!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

*ROFL* Mighty is Poe! Who would have thought he would ever create such an all-encompassing commentary on American media?

But it's hard to resist the fact that they do have a point; When I was in the states, I saw plenty of overweight people with beautiful skin and teeth, evidence of a strong dairy diet and I wondered where we as a nation had gone wrong. Good teeth = lots of milk doesn't it? And brits have always loved milk/yoghurts/cheese. On the other hand, we love sugar too...

Re: The teeth! The teeth!

[semyaza.livejournal.com]

I agree with Hybridartifacts. Also, since many Americans have terrible teeth because they can't afford a dentist, the perfect smile has become a symbol of wealth and privilege. It's a way of saying 'breed with me; I have money and status'.

Tooth colour is partly genetic, partly environmental, partly dietary, partly age-related. As for crowding, which is the other main cosmetic issue, that's genetic. If you have a small dental arch, you're going to have problems.

[larians.livejournal.com]

Early - mid thirties in my opinion and as I recall that it was most of the Nesters put you at.

I don't think you need anything doing and frankly the idea of it is a bit scary.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

*larfs* One day I will come home with boobie zeppelins looming up into the skies above Antwerp; when harnessed, they will provide a gentle eco-friendly alternative to aeroplanes. Windows might be a problem though.

Don't worry baby:-D

[ravenrigan.livejournal.com]

Don't you dare. I'm much older and more raddled than you, and I'm going to grow old disgracefully!

They wouldn't have given you the job in the firstplace if you wertn't fabulous!

You are lovely

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

and also you are lovely, meaning don't encrone yourself before your time my dear - your skin has a soft peachy glow and your decotellage is very smooth and delicate . Hardly the signs of an old lady.

See, it's not really about age; doesn't matter whether you're seventeen or seventy, the impact of brown teeth isn't good; Every one else hardly seem to notice, but if the show went to the states (very unlikely I think) there would be no question; I'd have that gumshield in tonight, cos US viewers just won't accept a gurn of grime!

Re: You are lovely

[ravenrigan.livejournal.com]

I think I may already be a crone at least in the gynecological sense. And when I look in the mirror I see my scariest Aunt, (0n my dad's side) sans the dyed black hair, and fifties "do" which is most disconcerting.

I confess to temptation about the teeth. Mine are pretty foul, and I never smile with my mouth open in photos.

Just don't cut anything, or stick needles into it!

Re: You are lovely

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Needles, well, one day the tattoo must happen!

Cutting...*shudders*

Tattoos are different

[ravenrigan.livejournal.com]

As you know, I have 2! They are pretty non invasive, and as long as you choose the site carefully can be covered up or shown as the mood takes you.

That does not mean of course they don't hurt, (they do, like buggery) but I did a ritual on a nearby (to the tattooist) site, and surfed through mine on a combination of endorphins and channelling the pain as energy.

It worked so well I was almost disappointed when the tattooist finished.

What do you want to have done, and where (on you)?

Do you have a tattoist in mind?

Re: Tattoos are different

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

It's just a thing in my head right now...my arm, where the scar from the removal of the melanoma is. I have long wanted to commemorate being able to confront my phobia (needles) by having a tattoo over the scar - a daisy (for me a symbol of invincible life) or a jasmine, or a star and dove combo. But I need to look through a lot more - guess it should be an armband really. mamapusscat tells me I will be eternally traumatised if I do this, plus being stuck with an accessory I can't ever take off, so I am still dithering!

But names of excellent tattooists are very welcome - I've got to find someone who uses EMLA or whatever it's called.

[hybridartifacts.livejournal.com]

The whole American vs British teeth thing is damn weird. In the States they place waaay more emphasis on regular, expensive dental work. Having braces etc to straighten your smile out is common while I suspect here in the UK many people don't think its worth it just to straighten a few teeth that work perfectly well wonky. So far as I see it-it all comes down to how (and why) you smile.

Certain 'American smiles' scare me. A lot. Its ultimately the 'American media/beautiful people smile'. In the states you have an emphasis on that 'beauty queen smile'-open your mouth and display as much of your teeth as possible-so of course if they are not shinning white and perfectly straight the smile wont 'work'. British smiles are usually done with the mouth closed and the corners turned up a little.

Now-the psychology of it is interesting. Showing your teeth in the animal world is actually a sign of aggression-its a way of saying 'I can eat you alive-watch out!'. So its actually not a smile at all. American dentistry and beauty pageants are inadvertently doing terrible harm to Americas relationship with the rest of the world by creating a subconscious impression that even the most caring and gentle American is, in fact, a wild beast that wants to eat you.

Ultimately this a 'media smile'-the average person on the street is encouraged to get one, but thankfully doesn't practice it in its full flesh eating glory-they actually still use their eyes (see below) to smile at the same time. If you also get botox though, half the natural movement of your face that you need for a more natural smile gets frozen out and people actually have to be brazen enough to look you in the eye to see if you are really smiling or not.

So-whats a real smile? I was very privileged to have worked for many years teaching art to people with a range of disabilities-some of whom could only communicate with their eyes. And thats where a smile really lives-in the eyes. I like it when people smile with their eyes. Its warm and makes immediate emotional contact. It expresses multiple layers of feeling (from sad smiles to sheer joy).

Now-you smile with your eyes (well, from what I saw on our meeting in London last year). I like that. But the industry you are in is increasingly getting more carnivorous by the looks of things, and if you need to impress some media people a British smile will not go down the same way. Its not a measure of likability or emotional contact-its a measure of plastic 'beauty' and your ability to be top carnivore. Its like the designer suits and swish business cards in the film 'American Psycho'. You don't give them your business card because you think they might like you and want to keep in touch-you give it to them to show yours is better/more expensive and they are therefore trash compared to you.

If you want to be part of the 'beautiful people' that smile is essential (as is learning to hug in as cold and as distant a way as possible with minimal body contact while you look over the persons shoulder and mouth how much you hate them to someone behind them with a knife). People will envy you and do the same smiles and hugs back to you.

If you want to be liked, trusted or admired-stay clear of the plastic beauty temptation, or only take it a little way along -whitening a smile a little but not showing the world how white it is all the time, looking after your skin and body but avoiding more extreme modification. Thats my take on it-for what its worth.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

It is a powerful and sensible take.

Nobody wants the cold bright white attack of the clones, and the love of that huge carnivorous smile is a bit hysterical. If you've ever seen the Madonna video 'Vogue' there is a point where this dashing film star type smiles and his grin is not at all mysterious, it's goofy and sweet. 'Beauty's where you find it.' So yes, a smile as an expression of the heart is true beauty. And yet, it is the buying and selling public who really determine what the media gives them...in the end, it is about what captures the hearts of the people. Why they want plastic beauty, huge boobs and conversely starveed thinness in feminine beauty is beyond me.

[hybridartifacts.livejournal.com]

I tend to think its the other way round-its not about what people want, its about what they are told they want.

Ideas of beauty are not only cultural-they are determined by a need to fit in with the image of beauty portrayed around us. In a society that is saturated with advertising, we learn to like what the ads tell is hot. I count such things as film stars, tv personalities and the 'beautiful people' as ads btw. They sell product even if they dont know it-the sharp ones do know it and create their own brands and product lines. Our society is driven by conspicuous over consumption-by buying to feel good, and the advert is the primary mode of telling us what we 'need' and 'desire'. I think that particularly American sort of media plastic beauty started in the 50s with all those ads showing big beaming fake smiles to sell product and just snowballed from there as TV took off and pushed it even further. Combine that with lazy fashion designers who prefer to design for coat hangers rather than fuller figures and gradually you get the modern take on beauty. And of course as celebrities found themselves more and more on camera they wanted to extend their shelf life and careers and the easiest way to do that is under the knife-growing old suggests redundancy in our culture rather than wisdom and experience, so all signs of age have to be banished if you want to keep in with the right crowd.

You may be able to tell that Im not particularly impressed by this aspect of modern western culture...

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Again, a very powerful and interesting take on things and I agree with much of it.

The history of beauty is a strange thing; I know of no time or place when a woman's wisdom and experience was considered preferable to feminine youth and ignorance; old women were to be pitied and derided unless they had the extremely rare priveleges of money and power. The optimum for a woman was to be young, un-used and exquisite; sometimes that exquisiteness took the form of white skin and golden hair, other times it took the form of plumpness and rosey cheeks. Alongside fecundity it was a woman's only personal commodity; both of these were expected to fade, and then she was supposed to... to what? disappear or hover in the background, nurture and endure and be silent, or take on that role so beloved in Carry On Films, the comedy old bag that nobody wants.

I honestly think our current culture is kinder. Of course, it would be better if we respected people for who they are. Beauty really is more than skin deep. But until peeps stop buying mags with synthetic boobs and fake smiles all over them, until we buy perfumes we like instead of those with Beckham and Kylie endorsements, we're not moving on. People know the dream is silly, but they want it anyway...I guess there's a mercy in more people being able to reach it.

[hybridartifacts.livejournal.com]

Ah...and this is where some anthropology comes in, with a smattering of ancient history. There have been cultures with wildly different takes on things-there is a lot of evidence that some prehistoric cultures were matriarchal, with age and wisdom being prized as much as childbearing-and the same goes for some tribal cultures recently. Though at first sight it would make sense to think that once a woman was past childbearing age they would no longer have much respect, most matriarchal/semi matriarchal cultures seem to elevate older women into a position of being seen as teachers and sustainer's to the younger women and thus essential. While being youthful and fit is always a good thing for childbearing, this is just one role among many and the sustainer/teacher role is also prized in some cultures-a woman just moves from one role to another. So-yes its generally preferable for having kids-that makes sense-but its not always been the most elevated role a woman can have.

The image of beauty is strictly cultural as well-in many countries big is seen as beautiful because it is evidence the person is rich enough to eat well. You also get practices such as scarification and lip plates being seen as enhancing beauty.

There is also a tribe in Africa where the men nurse the children while the woman do important work-they take the baby with them through out the day, letting it suck on their nipples as a 'dummy', and its not thought in any way un-macho.

We just rarely if ever get to see evidence of these different lifestyles because, like most cultures, we tend only to see the things that fit with and encourage our own worldviews.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Yes, Minoan/ Cretan civilisation, and the excavations of Catal Hoyuk would certainly seem to be evidence of Women being respected; but due to our lack of knowledge of these civilisations (and what seems to be a certain traditional resistance to the idea of matriarchal societies), the evidence is not as conclusive as one would like, and even then the study of very ancient cultures, with its over-emphasis on child-bearing is derogatory to the other capacities of women.

If a statuette of a woman is discovered and the boobs are large, she was of necessity a fertility goddess, cos heaven knows that's what women are for! And how do we know there weren't women staring at the Venus of Willendorf enviously saying, ' I wish my breasts were that big!

The gnostic poem 'Thunder Perfect Mind', the tales of the goddess Inanna and my favourite title of Hathor 'The Beautiful Thinker' are among the few bits of evidence that female intellect has ever been valued and considered beautiful. Yes, there are societies out there where things are different, if we start checking out tribal societies for examples of equality, I suspect we will find as many examples of enforced female conformity female elevation, though I hope to find myself wrong!

Western culture may like big breasts and white smiles, and those who fit that crteria may be paid more, but no-one is forced into it. I quite like that.

Whoops!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

enforced female conformity as female elevation, is what I meant to say!

[hybridartifacts.livejournal.com]

I think in the end it often comes down to the need in a society of particular social roles-of which sexual gratification and childbirth are just two.
Logically beauty and/or physical 'health' are important with both of these, but of course women have multiple roles in most cultures.

Talking with Suzette we mused over the iconic figure of the Italian family matriarch. Mother figures become elevated out of the 'beauty' category and into the control/wisdom category in some cultures.

I think in tribal societies there can be massive variation. I know of some where gender roles are very different (women choosing the males for instance, so the pressure to be 'attractive' was on the men, not the women). But of course you do get the opposite as well.

We have a particular problem in that our own society has tended to edit out things it is not comfortable not-both in history and in other cultures (and sometimes violently). We are therefore often blind to the existence of difference, or when we do see it we fail to understand its significance and role. Perhaps fertility goddess statues were actually a popular line of novelty 'mother-in-law' parodies that were the hot item in prehistoric times?

We dont have to go all that far to see that images of beauty have changed in our own culture though-look at the role of the hourglass figure in the 1950s, or the Rubenesque figure of the 17th century...the way tans are now popular when at one time women used to paint their faces white.

Ironically beauty often does seem to come down to images of wealth (white skin used to show you didn't have to work and were thus wealthy, a few decades ago a tan showed you could afford to relax on holiday).

[hybridartifacts.livejournal.com]

I thought this might be interesting in the light of our discussion-a nice full colour photo set of one places concept of beauty:
http://www.projectexploration.org/niger2000/wodaabe_feature.htm

The males have to dress up and impress the ladies...

Beautiful!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Thank you, what a fab link!

Let's all dress up and impress each other...until we're bored with that and just want to hang out, drink wine and star-gaze instead!

Re: Beautiful!

[hybridartifacts.livejournal.com]

What an excellent idea!
Being beautiful is only fun when everyone is just having a laugh and nobody actually is bothered if they get it right or not! At the wine drinking-stargazing stage everything and everyone is beautiful...

[bytepilot.livejournal.com]

Gorgeous girl, sweet darling boot, whose very presence turns my blood to fire and my knees to water* you are already beautiful beyond words.

*Thus causing steam to emerge from my ears

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Thank you my dear, but as we know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. In truth and with no idea of flattery, the beauty that turns your blood to fire and sends steam through your ears, is that of your own glittering mind.

[bytepilot.livejournal.com]

(hugs)
Methinks myne eye is not so strange as to see beauty where none exists.

The mind, however, may well be considered passing strange, some few have remarked on't.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Strange?

A thing of genius.