Judgement and negativity

[smokingboot]

This isn't going to be very nice, in fact, it is the most negative and unpleasant thing I have ever written on my lj. I do not do private posts, but with this, perhaps I should. No, heck with it, I'm not censoring myself. I just recommend that no-one reads it.



What's been wrong with me recently? There are lots of factors; I am still working but I have to get going looking for a job, I still haven't got the synopsis done, my cv needs...I don't know what it needs. It's too hot, the storm hasn't passed properly; tomorrow is a beautiful date for me (I love midsummer) but it's also a time I associate with disillusion and despair; A strange gift indeed, and if the fairies gave it, they were in most perverse mood, though they cleared me a path to great happiness. Tripping over Chief Wigam in a dress last week didn't help.

I read the extraordinary beauty of secretrapture's journal, and it quickens me from head to foot, the latest excerpt from Rumi's Book of Love almost sets me on fire just reading it. I read aegis_one's journal, and we talk about Super Barrio, and the readiness of people to make a difference.

Then I learn about a situation where someone could make a difference and didn't, they walked away. Oh, they are feeling bad about it, they are doing all the right stuff now, and rousing themselves to blame the world around them for being a shitty place. Well, who made it that way? Millions of human beings who do exactly what this person did, kept their heads down, looked after number one. The world's a tough place you know, you've got to look out for number one. How did it get this way? Could it be a history of people forever looking after number one? It's natural, it's human, to be cowardly, yes of course it is; and if people get tortured or bullied or raped, that's horrible but it's over there and we're over here so we're OK (fingers crossed). And when it comes over here? Who will protect us then? Er, sorry, no can do, looking after number one, you're on your own. Wot, no gun? Keep still then, and maybe you'll come out alive at the end of it. What's that? You can't stop recalling the trauma? your life was saved but your head was fucked? Oh dear. Well, life at any price and all that. You set the price, you pay it.

Yuk. I don't want to live in a world where this is the default. I don't want a world where the Kitty Genovese experience is the norm, to be expected. I am perfectly happy with those who live like this to catch a bullet, especially if the bullet would otherwise have landed in the chest of a real human being. Maybe a soul is something you earn.

And who am I to judge this, who am I to decide? No-one. The cruelty, the harshness inherent in this judgement is almost as bad as the evil of the coward who does nothing, and that is what I must remember. The seven deadly sins all have a part of me, but Pride and Wrath are my biggies. I am extreme, manic perhaps, always have been. When people question spirituality, I would argue that mine has been a great friend; I am elevated by the storm, and depressed by people dressing up their faults as some kind of inherent aspect of humanity. But this is not the way to be, there is something better, happier, kinder.

'A lug-worm, with its grey and muddy mouth
Sang that somewhere to north or west or south
There lived a gay, exulting, gentle race
Under the golden or the silver skies...'

- The Man Who Dreamed of Fairyland
W.B. Yeats

Comments

[bad-moon-rising.livejournal.com]

For evil to triumph all that is required is for good men to do nothing.

A quote I try very hard to live by and while i'm as equally capable of being spiteful and petty and holding a grudge as anyone else.. I get so angry when people hold up the concept that it is not our place to intervene you have no mandate from God etc etc.
Claiming that not intervening if you see something wrong in some way makes you a better more righteous person, that withholding judgement is in some way the act of a responsible sensible adult is nothing short of ludicrous. It is in my opinion beholden on every human being to decide what is acceptable behaviour to them, what they do not accept but harms no one unwilling, and what is cruelty and barbarism best outgrown and cosigned to the scrap heap of stupid concepts as outmoded as a flat earth.

Not acting is not courage, at best it is abdicating ones responsibilities to the rest of the people around us, at worst it is actively colaborating in what acts are being committed.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

You are singing to the tyrannosaurus in my soul!

My mind tells me that in order to make fair judgement, one should know, or at least try to establish all the facts and take context into account.

My heart agrees with you.

[binidj.livejournal.com]

I believe that people who do evil tend to think that, in fact, they are doing good. With that in mind, it is essential to go gently into any situation where evil is perceived and examine it clearly to see where and how one may best do good. Please not that this is not the same as procrastination, it is the same as compassion for all beings.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

I believe that people who do evil tend to think that, in fact, they are doing good.

I don't know about that. In my admittedly limited experience, true petty every day evil focuses on self. I don't mean the healthy self-liking we all need for mental/emotional health. I mean the sort of person who crosses the street when they are seeing someone else being hurt, or who lets someone else be hurt so that they will be safe. These will of course scream and wail if no-one helps them when they are being hurt. The nearest they come to making a moral judgement of any kind is 'What is pleasant for me is good, what is unpleasant for me is bad,' or maybe just plain 'Gimme!' Social evolution requires development beyond this point, I think.

Compassion is paramount. But what is the good of compassion shown to such people as these? They eat their own share up, give none to others and will take more from others if they can. They will suck up all the compassion they can get. And then, when replete, they will go away having learnt nothing. I wish I had an answer for this...

[binidj.livejournal.com]

Or perhaps people don't get involved because their self-image is such that they believe they can't make a difference. Why interfere with a violent crime when you believe that you are powerless to achieve anything other than putting yourself in the same situation with no gain to anyone other than those perpetrating the violence?

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Or perhaps people don't get involved because their self-image is such that they believe they can't make a difference.

If they can't manage a phone call to the police, I could see why their self image might be low; they may feel inadequate and useless because they are indeed inadequate and useless. To put it mildly.

This is not about bursting in like Batman - it's about doing something. That something does not have to be direct action. The point is to ensure that abuse either is not happening or stops. Do you know of the Kitty Genovese case, made famous in the Watchmen? Can't recall if the name was changed, but the real life story was of a woman raped outside a block of flats. People went about their business, or ignored it. Or watched. That's it, that's all they did.

Are these human beings at all?

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Caveat; I understand that there might be some whose own circumstances, combined with a moment's fear, might just freak or freeze. It's very understandable, but once they've recognised why they did nothing, surely the onus is on them to work through it.

[bad-moon-rising.livejournal.com]

A fair, rational and above all cold judgement yes, remdered without malice a desire for vengance or cruelty, but refusing to judge is moral cowardice most commonly wrapped up in a cloak of virtue to excuse it.

No enemies

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

You have no enemies,you say?
Alas, my friend, the boast is poor.
He who has mingled in the fray
Of duty, that the brave endure,
Must have made foes. If you have none,
Small is the work that you have done.
You've hit no traitor on the hip,
You've dashed no cup from perjured lip,
You've never turned the wrong to right,
You've been a coward in the fight.

- Charles MacKay

You realise you are crunching all my attempts to return to being nice, don't you:-)

Re: No enemies

[bad-moon-rising.livejournal.com]

Well yes but your always at your most entertaining when you feel strongly about something :)

Re: No enemies

[bad-moon-rising.livejournal.com]

Fantastic poem by the way and sums up my attitudes really very well :)

Re: No enemies

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

I thought you would like it!

[ellistar.livejournal.com]

Ok this is a hard concept, but as someone who trained very hard for many years to be capable of intervening I have a problem with the black and white here.

Whenever you see "evil" being perpetrated then you should step in and do something. Hmm I understand the principle and even agree with it. I am after all described by many as one of lives paladins.

Each person in each situation will naturally weigh the pros and cons of action. The likelihood of injury or other less tangible consequences. The Status quo they have the up side of action that brings to others benefit.

It is not for anyone, or even possible for us, to judge the actions of another; or inactions. We are not they and cannot judge what they are going through or have lived through to be here.

I have after much discussion for example come to pity the german soldiers in the second world war. What must they have felt every day when they saw what happened in the holocaust. Yet the futility of action must have weighed heavy upon them. "All I will achieve is to add myself to the lists of the dead". I wonder how we would have acted ourselves in those situations. I hope with honour but I cannot know. We may scream "act" in our own heads but they may scream any number of other things all the louder.

I know people that cry every time they see the noble sacrifice, even in film. Why would they give up their life for another. What was the point, how did they know they had the greater worth? Many that actually make the sacrifice just do it out of instinct is this a sacrifice all the same?

There is a certain book that alludes to the greatest of all things is the sacrifice for another man. Yet later says turn the other cheek. This would imply a pick up the pieces attitude rather than a step in and act. Hmm interesting eh?

I am now officially confused... I can only say I hope that humanity acts more than not but will never judge those that did not.

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Admire your thoughts and see the wisdom. But I do not believe in withholding judgement. If people are not judged, they will not act. Some will out of genuine goodness of heart, but most will ignore.

When a person hears another crying out in distress in an alley, when the one sees the other being beaten up, yes, it is unacceptable to walk on by. On a pragmatic level, our society depends on each of us not doing so, because one day, everyone of us will find ourselves in that alley. It doesn't need to be a charge into battle; a phone call to the police right there and then is a fine form of action.

Unless the earth is to become a vast echochamber of screams and unanswered cries for help, each individual had better be prepared to do something.But I think Echochamber earth is fast becoming reality. Because we fear to act and we fear to judge, and the torturers and rapists and bullies are getting away with it, while we hope vaguely that things get better.

[november-girl.livejournal.com]

Calling the police doesn't necessarily involve condemnation of the person doing the beating-up though: it is merely reporting to the authorities that it seems there is someone in need of assistance. There could be all kinds of reasons that person is being beaten up, some of which you might even agree with. It's extremely dangerous to make any kind of judgement without knowing all the facts: I'm sure there are plenty of things that you've don ein your life that could be misunderstood very easily by someone sticking their nose in halfway through.

My view is that I don't get involved in things I don't understand. If someone is clearly in need of assistance then I shall do what I can, but it's not for me to intervene in situations unasked otherwise. That way lies the invasion of Iraq etc and the worst kinds of evangelism.

Amended. Sorry!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Calling the police doesn't necessarily involve condemnation of the person doing the beating-up though: it is merely reporting to the authorities that it seems there is someone in need of assistance.

Absolutely! This has got to be the best expression of giving help in a potentially difficult situation without making judgements except the one; that there appears to be a potential problem.

It's extremely dangerous to make any kind of judgement without knowing all the facts: I'm sure there are plenty of things that you've don ein your life that could be misunderstood very easily by someone sticking their nose in halfway through.

I don't know of any situation where I have been judged half way through a situation on the basis of actual evidence; When I have been ill-judged, it has been due to a desire to do so, and neither truth nor appearance would have influenced the outcome as far as I know. Misunderstanding wasn't a danger or a consequence, it was a necessary, albeit perhaps unconscious, prerequisite.

My view is that I don't get involved in things I don't understand. If someone is clearly in need of assistance then I shall do what I can, but it's not for me to intervene in situations unasked otherwise. That way lies the invasion of Iraq etc and the worst kinds of evangelism.

Your view is wise and clear. I think the key phrase here is 'Clearly in need of assistance.' It is when that need is ignored that I see red. And I suspect that need is ignored more often than it is answered. But I would be happy to be wrong about this!

(Reply to this)(Parent)

This is going to sound monstrous harsh...

[bytepilot.livejournal.com]

Nobody, under any circumstances, acts out of altruism.

Everyone looks after number one.
Whatever they do is whatever they think is will make them feel best about the situation.

Next time you do something that seems altrustic, take out your motivations and examine them (in private please, such things are not for the public gaze)
If you can't boil them down to enlightened self interest, look again; you are deluding yourself.

From my own point of view I find that recognising my gain for doing something makes the doing of it easier.

If I recognise that I'm going to Auntie Ethel's boring tea party because I prefer the boredom there to the family outrage I'd get for refusing to attend I can endure the boredom better because I know I'm still in profit at the end of it.

If I recognise that the feeling of disquiet I'd have for walking by would be worse than the broken knuckles I get for wading in I can wade in with a will. Knowing that whatever happens I'm still coming out ahead of the game, feeling good about myself.

Re: This is going to sound monstrous harsh...

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

I do not think this is any harsher than the things I have been saying; it's a well measured argument. I just do not agree with it!

Incredible sacrifices happen every day, for love, for duty, for whatever. The ultimate sacrifice, laying down your life for another, cannot be put down to someone doing it to feel good about themselves. That moment of righteous satisfaction cannot compare to the great fear of not existing, especially for those with no spiritual belief to prop them up. There is no reward here and there is no reward after it and no-one will see, and no-one will cheer...


And yet they do it anyway. They are rare, but not rare enough to be considered beyond the human condition.

And on the subject of everyday altruism, it is a glorious triumph of Satanic doublethought (in the sense of LaVey's ideas) to decide that 'doing good' must feel bad or feel like nothing at all to be good. Just been reading thom_ryng's excerpt from a book by the Pope. Apart from the granite heavy language, the guy begins to talk of God as 'all action' rather than 'all potence'. It gives thought; if God is all action, are we not 'all action' too? Because we created it/her/him/them for a reason, or they created us for the same.

Re: This is going to sound monstrous harsh...

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

Bugger! I mean thomryng. Sorry about that.

Re: This is going to sound monstrous harsh...

[bytepilot.livejournal.com]

it's a well measured argument. I just do not agree with it!
Love and kisses for you my sweet, you are wonderful beyond measure.

The ultimate sacrifice, laying down your life for another, cannot be put down to someone doing it to feel good about themselves.

I'd argue that this exactly wrong.
Though perhaps the wording should be "someone doing it to avoid loathing themselves forever".

I can imagine all kinds of scenarios where I would severely risk my own life to avoid injury/death to other people, only one has come to pass so far* and I know for certain that the choice boiled down very fast into how I would feel about myself for following each course of action.

I didn't end up dead*, I walked away from that one with nothing more than wrenched shoulders and a bruised knee. But I can tell you now that there are fates worse than death, and depending on who you are knowing that by your action/inaction someone else is suffering is one of them.

Choice is all too often a tapdance through the minefield of evil concequences.

*Or if I did, I feel pretty calm about it.

Re: This is going to sound monstrous harsh...

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

So now I get all hippy on your ass! The following are just my opinions. I take no responsibility for the fact they may be nonsense!

God, they say, is love. So any act of love is an act of God (Or an act of Dog, who knows?)

There is no such thing as selfish love; if it's selfish, it's not love. But love is fulfilment etc, and it is right and healthy to hope and expect that from love. Ever so simple. It's when your own fulfilment is all that matters that the problem starts.

Bring on the tie dyed flower hats!

[bytepilot.livejournal.com]

Now we begin to argue phenomenology rather than ethics.

Where is the difference between an action performed deliberately to make you happy with the intent that your happiness make me happy, and an action performed which makes you happy with no intent other than on the action itself.
Deep Breath

Example.
Consider, Larians buys you a Birthday Pres which makes you smile and go "Squeeeee!". By your argument there is no love in the gift if he has done this becasue he enjoys your bouncy happiness.

Example 2.
I'm willing to bet cash money that you sleep sounder in your bed at night knowing that there is a bowl of food out for the Chav Cat. Is there less compassion in your feeding him because you'd feel bad if you didn't do it ?

If it feels loving, it's love.

Thou art God.

Re: Bring on the tie dyed flower hats!

[smokingboot.livejournal.com]

*grins* I can't argue with that!

But I never did argue with it; I never said love couldn't feel great, couldn't be gratifying - I just said that if it did, it didn't mean that the feeling was reprehensible or wrong. Action derived from Love that makes you happy is not lacking in altruism. It's the point.

You are god also. With flaming hair and eyes that shine...